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Thread: Revelation End Time and the so called rapture ?

  1. #31
    Ek weet jy hou nie van lees nie, maar lees tog maar wat het die ou te se.

    Josephus (A.D. 75) - Jewish Historian
    "Besides these [signs], a few days after that feast, on the one- and-twentieth day of the month Artemisius, [Jyar,] a certain prodigious and incredible phenomenon appeared; I suppose the account of it would seem to be a fable, were it not related by those that saw it, and were not the events that followed it of so considerable a nature as to deserve such signals; for, before sun-setting, chariots and troops of soldiers in their armour were seen running about among the clouds, and surrounding of cities. Moreover, at that feast which we call Pentecost, as the priests were going by night into the inner [court of the] temple, as their custom was, to perform their sacred ministrations, they said that, in the first place, they felt a quaking, and heard a great noise, and after that they heard a sound as of a great multitude, saying, "Let us remove hence" (Jewish Wars, VI-V-3).

    “A supernatural apparition was seen, too amazing to be believed. What I am now to relate would, I imagine, be dismissed as imaginary, had this not been vouched for by eyewitnesses, then followed by subsequent disasters that deserved to be thus signalized. For before sunset chariots were seen in the air over the whole country, and armed battalions speeding through the clouds and encircling the cities.” (rendered in Chilton)

    Tacitus (A.D. 115) - Roman historian
    "13. Prodigies had occurred, but their expiation by the offering of victims or solemn vows is held to be unlawful by a nation which is the slave of superstition and the enemy of true beliefs. In the sky appeared a vision of armies in conflict, of glittering armour. A sudden lightning flash from the clouds lit up the Temple. The doors of the holy place abruptly opened, a superhuman voice was heard to declare that the gods were leaving it, and in the same instant came the rushing tumult of their departure. Few people placed a sinister interpretation upon this. The majority were convinced that the ancient scriptures of their priests alluded to the present as the very time when the Orient would triumph and from Judaea would go forth men destined to rule the world." (Histories, Book 5, v. 13).

  2. #32
    Chris, toe ek op n tyd in die Moslem midde Ooste, vir ‘n paar manne daar vrae gevra het oor hul afgodsdien, toe kon hul my nie antwoord nie, want hul ken nie hul knorrige haan nie. Hul het toe aan my gesę hul sou toe eers hul Imam of hul priester gaan sien, want hy ken die kor haan goed.

    Jy moet net oppas, dat jy nie heeltyd internet toe hardloop en ook die internet video’s nader vir verduidelikings nie.

  3. #33
    Ou Chris, klink vir my of jy wil aantoon dat die hele Openbaring beeldspraak is. Sjoe Chris, nou klink dit eers erg vir my.
    Alles wat nou nie verduidelik kan word nie is sommer nou beeld-spraak. Die beeld van spraak, of die beeld wat spraak???
    Maak dit sin dat ons die Bybel in beeldspraak moet lees? Sjoe Chris, ek wonder...

  4. #34
    Jy kon glad nie aan my verduidelik het, dat Opb 19 en 20 reeds plaasgevind het nie, en ek glo nie EINGE iemand wat hier lees, sal die twak wat jy kwytraak glo nie.

    So ek gaan dus maar aan in trurat na Opb 15 en 16. Ek sou gedink get jy sou nou al seker gesnap het dat jou teorie absoluut vals is, maar lyk my jy bly hardekwas.

    So kom ek stap aan.

  5. #35
    Openbaring 15 en 16:
    Die 7 laaste plae op die koninkryk van duisternis, en sy volgelinge.
    Hier sien ons dat sterre uit die hemel val, en AL die seediere en lewe in die see vrek maak. Ja ALLES, en niks bly lewe nie.
    Ook sien ons dat pynvolle swere op daai duister koninkryk val en die mense pynig.
    Ons sien dat al die waterbronne in bloed verander, en dat daai mense bloed sal moet drink.
    Die son brand die mense van daai duister koninkryk, soos nog nooit tevore op aarde nie.
    Die Eufraat rivier droog heeltemal op, sodat die duisternis konings kan deurtrek Israel toe.
    Die grootste aardbesing ooit op aarde, eilande verdwyn en groot hael val op daai mense.

    Is dit waar Chris, Het dit reeds gebeur Chris. Antwoord jy my asb.

  6. #36
    In this commentary on Revelation 16 the reader will see that the seven plagues of Revelation 16 are a very accurate description of several notable events throughout the course of the Jewish War. The pouring out of the seven bowls of Revelation 16 is a reflection of the pouring out of drink offerings during Pentecost. During Pentecost in A.D. 66, Josephus and Tacitus record what appears to be the departure from the Temple of the seven angels with the seven bowls. Immediately thereafter, the Jewish War began. During this war the seas and rivers turned red with blood as predicted in the second and third bowls. A multitude of miraculous signs were witnessed in A.D. 69, one year before the climactic siege of Jerusalem in fulfillment of Revelation 16:14: “They are spirits of demons performing miraculous signs, and they go out to the kings of the whole world, to gather them for the battle . . . .” Amidst these miraculous signs, the kings of the east, Sohaemus and Antiochus, crossed the Euphrates to meet the other Roman forces near Mt. Megiddo (Armageddon) as indicated in Revelation 16:12 and 16. During this time a great thunderstorm and earthquake simultaneously rocked Jerusalem while both Rome and Jerusalem were divided by separate and concurrent three-way civil wars as predicted in the seventh bowl in Revelation 16:18-19: “Then there came flashes of lightening, rumblings, peals of thunder and a severe earthquake. . . . [and; T]he great city split into three parts.” When the Romans arrived in Jerusalem in A.D. 70, Roman catapults hurled boulders into the city. These stones were white and weighed about one hundred pounds as predicted in Revelation 16: 21: “From the sky huge hailstones of about a hundred pounds each fell upon men.” In the following preterist commentary on Revelation 16, the reader will be exposed to the evidence.

  7. #37
    Hein

    Rev 16:12 En die sesde engel het sy skaal uitgegooi op die groot rivier, die Eufraat, en sy water het opgedroog, sodat die pad van die konings wat van die ooste af kom, reggemaak kon word.

    Dink jy regtig dat weermagte vandag nog moet wag vir 'n rivier om te droog sodat hulle kan aanval? Nee Hein, dit het sin gemaak 2000 jaar terug.

    Rev 6:12 En ek het gesien toe Hy die sesde seël oopgemaak het, en kyk, daar was ‘n groot aardbewing; en die son het swart geword soos ‘n harige sak, en die maan het geword soos bloed;
    Rev 6:13 en die sterre van die hemel het op die aarde geval, soos ‘n vyeboom wat deur ‘n groot wind geskud word, sy navye laat afval;
    Rev 6:14 en die hemel het weggewyk soos ‘n boek wat toegerol word, en al die berge en eilande is uit hulle plekke versit;

    Het die son swart geword, of is dit beeldspraak?
    Soos n harige sak. Dit is beeldspraak.
    Die maan het geword soos bloed. Dit is beeldspraak, dink jy regtig die maan gaan in 'n rooi vloeistof verander?
    Die Hemel het weggewyk. Wat sal dit beteken?

    Chris

  8. #38
    Hein

    Kyk hoe het die water in bloed verander.

    “On one occasion during the Jewish Great Tribulation, “thousands of Jewish rebels fled to the Sea of Galilee from the Roman massacre of Tarichaeae. Setting out on the lake in small, flimsy boats, they were soon pursued and overtaken by the sturdy rafts of Vespasian’s superior forces. Then, as Josephus recounts, they were mercilessly slaughtered: “The Jews could neither escape to land, where all were in arms against them, nor sustain a naval battle on equal terms…Disaster overtook them and they were sent to the bottom, boats and all. Some tried to break through, but the Romans could reach them with their lances, killing others by leaping upon the boats and passing their swords through their bodies; sometimes as the rafts closed in, the Jews were caught in the middle and captured along with their vessels. ...

    If any of those who had been plunged into the water came to the surface, they were quickly dispatched with an arrow or a raft overtook them; if, in their extremity, they attempted to climb on board the enemy’s rafts, the Romans cut off their heads or their hands. So these wretches died on every side in countless numbers and in every possible way, until the survivors were routed and driven onto the shore, their vessels surround by the enemy. As they threw themselves on the them, many were speared while still in the water; many jumped ashore, where they were killed by the Romans.

    “One could see the whole lake stained with blood and crammed with corpses, for not a man escaped. During the days that followed a horrible stench hung over the region, and it presented an equally horrifying spectacle. The beaches were strewn with wrecks and swollen bodies, which, hot and clammy with decay, made the air so foul that the catastrophe that plunged the Jews in mourning revolted even those who had brought it about.” (Josephus: Chilton , p399, 400)

    Chris

  9. #39
    Hein
    Hier is jou haelstorm, opgeteken in die geskiedenis.

    Rev 16:21 en groot hael, omtrent ‘n talent swaar, het uit die hemel op die mense geval; en die mense het God gelaster oor die plaag van die hael, omdat sy plaag ontsettend groot was.

    Kyk wat is opgeskryf in die geskiedenis.

    “The stone missiles weighed a TALENT [100 pounds] and traveled two furlongs or more, and their impact not only on those who were hit first, but also on those behind them, was enormous. At first the Jews kept watch for the stone- for it was white- and its approach was intimated to the eye by its shining surface as well as to their ear by its whizzing sound. Watchmen posted on the towers gave the warnings whenever the engine was fired and the stone came hurtling toward them, shouting in their native tongue: “The Son is coming.” Those in the line of fire made way and fell prone, a precaution that resulted in the stone’s passing harmlessly through and falling in their rear. To frustrate this, it occurred to the Romans to blacken the stones so that they could not be seen so easily before hand; then they hit their target and destroyed many with a single shot.”

    Let op hoe het hulle mekaar gewaarsku. Die Seun kom. Lyk dit nie vir jou na die laster waarvan Johannes in vers 21 praat nie? Lees verder.

    This is fascinating history… Stuart Russell records additional information saying,

    “It could not but be well known to the Jews that the great hope and faith for the Christians was the speedy coming of the Son. It was about this very time, according to Hegesippus, that St James, the brother of our Lord, publicly testified in the temple that ‘the Son of Man was about to come in the clouds of heaven,’ and then sealed his testimony with his blood.[i.e. they killed him]. It seems highly probable that the Jews, in their defiant and desperate blasphemy, when they saw the white mass hurtling through the air, raised the ribald cry, ‘The Son is coming,’ in mockery of the Christian hope of the Parousia, to which they might trace a ludicrous resemblance in the strange appearance of the missile.” (Chilton, 417-18)

    Dan lees ons in Isa 9:6 (9:5) Want ‘n Kind is vir ons gebore, ‘n Seun is aan ons gegee; en die heerskappy is op sy skouer, en Hy word genoem: Wonderbaar, Raadsman, Sterke God, Ewige Vader, Vredevors—
    Isa 9:7 (9:6) tot vermeerdering van die heerskappy en tot vrede sonder einde, op die troon van Dawid en oor sy koninkryk, om dit te bevestig en dit te versterk deur reg en deur geregtigheid, van nou af tot in ewigheid. Die ywer van die HERE van die leërskare sal dit doen.

    So nee Hein daar kom nie een moerse haelstorm wat die aarde plat vee nie.

    Chris

  10. #40
    Hein

    Hier is die hongersnood.

    And now there were three treacherous factions in the city, the one parted from the other. Eleazar and his party, that kept the sacred first-fruits, came against John in their cups. Those that were with John plundered the populace, and went out with zeal against Simon. This Simon had his supply of provisions from the city, in opposition to the seditious. When, therefore, John was assaulted on both sides, he made his men turn about, throwing his darts upon those citizens that came up against him, from the cloisters he had in his possession, while he opposed those that attacked him from the temple by engines of war; and if at any time he was freed from those that were above him, which happened frequently, from their being drunk and tired, he sallied out with a great number upon Simon and his party; and this he did always in such parts of the city as he could come at, till he set on fire those houses that were full of corn, and of all provisions.* The same thing was done by Simon, when, upon the others' retreat, he attacked the city also; as if they had, on purpose done it to serve the Romans, by destroying what the city had laid up against the Siege, and by thus cutting off the nerves of their own power. Accordingly, it so came to pass, that all the places that were about the temple were burnt down, and were become an intermediate desert space, ready for fighting on both sides; and that almost all the corn was burnt, which would have been sufficient for a siege of many years. So they were taken by the means of famine, which it was impossible they should have been, unless they had thus prepared the way for it by this procedure

    Chris

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